First Bass&Treble and then Normalise: Two Pass or vice versa plus some strange buzzing

It sounds great! No more torturous suggestions from me lol. Your audio settings are at a place where speaking 15cm from the mic instead of 18cm will make a bigger difference in the sound than the EQ settings will. Now you are free to think about something other than audio. :smile:

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Can it be that “Normalize: Two pass” applied to the timeline has no effect? Now I put this filter on the clip and already it adjusts the volume as expected. Is this normal?

This leads to the question: Does it matter if you put the audio filters on the clip, the timeline or on the output?

I just noticed that you can’t add “Normalize: Two Pass” individually to the track with add a filter. Consequently, it is normal that it does not work when it is added to the track together with other filters via Copy and Past.

You found a loophole using copy/paste. “Normalize: Two pass” is not supported on the track or timeline output - only on clips.

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What if I put Normalize: Two pass on track? Will it be applied to all clips being on this track?

You cannot apply the filter “Normalize: Two Pass” to a track. And if you should succeed anyway, like me, per Copy and Past, then it remains without effect.

That made me… very angry! :rage: As it’s possible to add Normalise: Two Pass to track. Before export shotcut ask it to analyse audio files and it does it as tasks are visible. Everything looks like this filter is applied. And it could be applied. Just to all audio clips being on this track. There is no any technical reason not to do this. Thus for me it’s TERRIBLE BUG!!! I decided to delete all my videos from yt and add them once again to have better audio and… Sorry but my blood tension is extremely high now. Shotcut definitely has too many errors. Bugs, bugs, bugs… I’m trying to understand that it’s free project but on the other hand I use many free software and with no any I have so many problems…

True I noticed that results are very minor but I was sure that it’s because of good quality of my audio recording and repeatable recording conditions and now I learn that it’s not true. Moreover it’s strange that I have to add normalize: two pass to all clips on my audio track. If I cut my wav file ex. on 30 small pieces, should I add normalize to all of them? That’s ridiculous…

:rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:

Why are you using Normalize, just use a gain/volume and adjust the gain yourself, you can put that on a track. Higher volume is not equal to better sound.

Hello ken_wawa,
stay calm, everything is half as bad. There are always problems and crashes with all video editors, including Vegas Pro.
I worked with Kdenlive for a year and a half, a very nice program, I got along with it immediately. And there are 1,000 filters, everything x times and that is confusing because many do not work at all. With Shotcut I have not yet discovered one (yes, ok one, Normalize: Two Pass, if it was accidentally put on the track, there it does not work). But all the others have not failed once. Shotcut has fewer filters, but all can be used very well.
And, another incredible advantage that makes me get over all the little shortcomings: The forum. Don’t forget how much you can learn there, with a very personal tutorial. Try it somewhere else, e.g. at K. You will be surprised.
You have worked too much and want too much at once. Enjoy your great progress. And, if necessary, delete the Normalize: Two Pass and replace it with Normalise: One Pass, choose a large enough window and that might be good for your work.

The point here is not that a freeware may be less good, but consider how big the disappointment would be if you pay and the software is still not perfect.
Personally, I have very often made great progress precisely because something failed me, through my mistake or a flaw in the technology.



Hello @Austin,
Back to Normalize (Two Pass). When I set to -15 LUFS, the audio gets very loud. I do have a limiter set to -1.5 dB, but the levels are already going very very high.
Would the default value for Target Loudness -23.0 LUFS perhaps be the better setting, although -14 or -13 LUFS is often recommended on the internet.
Is there a setting that you can simply rely on?

The LUFS threshold for internet services like YT is max loudness you can use before the service will turn it down. For a rock video -15 LUFS is fine, but for other things it is to lould, and you can go for something lower, always use your ears to decide how it sounds.

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Thank you, your thoughts reassure me. In this big discussion I had the impression -15 LUFS was optimal. But the level very close to 0 dB irritates me, besides my ears tell me that it is too loud.
Question: Why is the default - 23 LUFS? Would this be a good level for spoken language only?

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Forget about the numbers, find the loudness that feel right when you listen to you voice, it is up to your creative vision if you want it to be a whisper or shouting or somewhere in between.

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That sounds good: Trust in your own ears. But the question comes to me: Why is there then this normalizer (Two Pass), if you regulate the volume by feel? And with what? Is it just as good to increase the volume with the compressor with makeup gain? Or with Gain/Volume?

There are many very good helpers here in the forum - but you still really stand out - I notice that many users, including myself, get a lot of encouragement and support from you. Your desire and joy in helping is great.

A normalizer adjust the gain/volume so the highest peak in the audio waveform is below some threshold. It is the same constant gain there is applied (don’t change the dynamic range)

A compressor is reducing peaks above a threshold with the compression ratio and can apply makeup gain to increase the gain of the lowest peak (changes the dynamic range, so there is less difference between low and high peaks)

Both will change the perceived loudness.

The are many way to gain the same loudness level, but the result will sound different, your ears is the ultimate judge, but it is best to compare at the same loudness level, because if you listen to the same audio at 2 different loudness levels, you might think that the loudest one sound better, even if there is no difference.

I think I understand how a compressor works: everything above the threshold is compressed by the selected ratio. This reduces the dynamics of the sound, but also the volume. To compensate for this decrease in volume, you specify the value by which you want to increase the volume again in “Makeup gain”. But by how much? In “Gain Reduction” you can see approximately how much the compressor has reduced the volume by compressing. But you never know exactly how much you have to increase the volume.
In “Audio Loudness” you can read off quite exactly how loud the signal is, but you would have to watch the whole video carefully and you would also have to know which level should be how high.
Then I understood @Austin to say that this is very difficult and that’s why Normalize (Tow Pass) helps: This does not set the loudest peak, but the standardized LUFS, which I understand as a kind of “average loudness”. The prescribed or appropriate loudness can thus be set much better than if you look at “Audio Loudness” with your eyes and set it by hand.

Tim, I don’t mean to disagree with you, and so far I’ve gotten by without Normalize at all, but thought it would be a big help until I noticed that -15 LUFS sounds way too loud on me.

So I, (or we) need to rethink the whole issue.

Here is where the -23 LUFS comes from

I was talking about Peak Normalization, the shotcut filter does loudness normalization, that looks at the RMS of the signal to find the constant gain to apply to the signal, even if can cause clipping of the signal.

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Finally I understand the world again!
Hello @TimLau I couldn’t quite figure out from all that was said on this page about Normalize (Two pass) and also from what you write to me.
Now I know why: there seems to be a bug in the effect.

If I have already applied this filter and change the volume by Compressor EQ or whatever, then Normalize seems to go haywire. It makes some values that never seemed logical to me. Of course I have done analysis, but still totally illogical behavior. It doesn’t raise or lower the volume, as would be expected.


But if I Normalize “Remove selected Filter” and then re-apply it, it does exactly what it is supposed to do: It then works correctly.
My Shotcut version is ARCH-22.01.30 on Linux.
It is too early to make a bug report, I need to investigate the phenomenon more.

Yes, the error occurs again and again. Also with shotcut-linux-x86_64-220306.AppImage.

Nromalize works properly only if it is applied last (“Add a Filter”). It does not matter where it is placed. “Move filter down” does not bring any improvement. You have to “Remove Normalize filter” and then select “Add Normalize filter” again. Then it works fine.

I have just reported this bug.

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