Shotcut Needs Markers. Badly

My own vote, FWIW: the 4 properties you list are more than enough to start with. I’d rather this feature be simpler and sooner rather than more complex and have it take longer … :slight_smile:

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Exactly. Complexity in the instance of markers isn’t a good thing. They need to be able to be placed wherever they’re needed. There shouldn’t be a lot of prerequisites – in terms of using or learning – to work with them.

Hello, I would like to make a suggestion about the markers. It would be important to me that the markers can also be tied to the clips. When a clip moves in the timeline, the markers should be able to move with it. VG Robert

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This should go without saying. If the marker doesn’t move with the clip – while it isn’t useless, especially prior to a cut elsewhere in the timeline – it certainly is afterward because you’ll have to re-mark.

@LordBastet and @Philez, unless I am missing something, I believe both of you are talking about something separate than markers. In some other video editors they are called flags. Flags are put on the clips themselves as opposed to markers that are placed away from clips and on the timeline. Flags move with the clips since they are placed on the clips whereas markers are meant to mark the exact moment on the timeline regardless of what clip is there.

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Since it can mark a range of frames, there was a good suggestion made by @rondi7 that I would like to echo. And that’s about adding the function of being able to create chapters and being able to export that information. The matroska container can hold chapter info which is also used on DVDs and Blurays. Even if people are not going to use them for DVDs and Blurays, chapter information would be very useful and handy for people. It’d be nice to somehow be able to set the ranges on the timeline to create chapter stops then exporting that along with the matroska file. Can that be added?

There is also a small suggestion I wanted to bring up. In some other video editors, when you manually place the playhead on a marker or seek to a marker or even just go frame by frame to a marker, on the upper left hand corner a small transparent box will appear on the player screen with info on that marker. Like this. As soon as you move at least one frame away from the marker then that box goes away from the player. Can something like that be added?

No, I can’t speak for @LordBastet but I’m talking about markers. A marker is exactly what the name implies, namely something that indicates or marks something.

Now, my workflow tends to put markers pretty high, which I typically use to determine where to cut. And once placed (sometimes on multiple timelines, which have to be aligned) then I make the cut.

So I don’t tend to encounter an issue with the timeline shifting and knocking off the positioning of the marker, though would it be nice if if didn’t move?

Sure, it would.

Sounds like the more general question is… If somebody does a Ripple All deletion of a clip, should the markers slide down the timeline as part of the ripple?

Eek, markers that move with clips? My first thought is that they should mark places on the timeline to mark sections and not move when clips are moved…

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Which is used on the timeline, not on the clips. Markers are not for the clips. Like I said, if it’s meant to be specifically tied to a clip then it would be something like a clip marker or as is known in some other editors a flag.

In any case, @Austin brought up a good question. I would suggest in the menu/options list that is specifically for the Markers feature in Shotcut, there could be an option there for Ripple Markers. When turned on, and you move clips in the timeline with the other ripple options on, then there the markers would move according to that ripple. I think that would make sense. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Imagine a marker near the end of the timeline. Then ripple delete a clip. You could end up with a marker that is beyond the end of the timeline, which is probably not what you intended.

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@elusien - good point. In that case, I like @drm’s idea of Ripple Markers.

In my current concept, markers would conform to the current “ripple” buttons in the timeline. Do you think there should be separate “ripple” buttons for markers? I’m afraid that would be confusing.

I am designing the marker system so that in the future markers could be added to individual clips. but that will not be included in the first release.

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I suggest that because there could be scenarios where someone would like to ripple the clips around but not move the markers that have been set.

That’s good to hear. :slightly_smiling_face:

Also, just to add to the suggestion about chapter stops, there is another use case I forgot to add: Youtube. There is that feature on youtube that if you list the timestamps along with a title for each section in the description box then the youtube player will list them as chapter stops for navigation. Seeing as how producing content for youtube is a very common purpose for so many using Shotcut, a feature like that would come very much in handy. After a user finishes their edit, then can set chapter stops with the markers and there could be perhaps an export option to produce a txt file with the chapter stops and the names written in the format that is ready for youtube.

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@brian , your work on this is amazing. Thank you! Without wishing to inundate you further, I just had one more thought - it would be nice to be able not only to export between markers, but also to save a region as an MLT (use case - to mixdown a multi-tracked section into a single track). Just a thought.

Sounds good to me. I would agree, no need then for “ripple” buttons for markers I think…

Consider this: If you wanted to ripple across several tracks except for one, you have the ability to prevent rippling that track by locking it. But now if you wanted to ripple across all tracks except for that one track and the markers, how would you go about preventing the rippling of those markers? :slightly_smiling_face:

That’s a really good point. If video is being synchronized to a music track, the markers could indicate where the next cut based on the music track should be. The music track is often locked while the video tracks are manipulated (including rippled) to match the music. In this scenario, the markers would need to be locked too or they would no longer match the music.

@drm and @austin - I take your point. So yes, maybe there should be an option to either lock or ripple the markers? Maybe a right-click menu in the marker “track”?

I’m kinda feeling like if there is a distinction between timeline markers and clip markers, then the need for a ripple toggle might not even exist. Timeline markers wouldn’t ripple because they mark absolute time. Clip markers would ripple (if ripple is on) because they mark relative time. Everything is pretty straight-forward in that world.

The workflow examples described below were my original response before realizing the use cases for absolute vs relative markers. My original response assumed that clip markers don’t exist… and it gets a little messy:

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I would expect marker ripple or marker lock to be a very common toggle when syncing anything to music.

Another use case is a reaction video where markers indicate where in the source video that reactions should be added. The response video is manipulated extensively (to remove dead air and find a good take), but the source video stays constant like a locked music track, and so should the markers. (I’m referring to response videos that leave the source video playing and duck the audio, as opposed to pausing the source video.)

Yet another scenario might be having a screencast tutorial or gaming video as the locked syncing track, and markers indicate where narration should be recorded and added in post. Ripple should affect narration being manipulated into place, but not the base video or the markers that indicate sync points.

The right-click menu might be a little slow for a common feature if that is its only location. All the other ripple options are on the timeline toolbar, so to me, it would make sense to add a marker ripple button there also. The nice thing about the right-click menu is that it enables the display and capture of a shortcut key.

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As stated above, an alternative option for these “locked track” editing workflows is to apply markers directly to the locked music clip. Then the other clips can be manipulated any way necessary without messing up the timing on the locked base clip. A toggle for marker ripple might be unnecessary if the option exists to apply markers directly to a clip, and the track lock extends to markers too. But that feature wasn’t slated for the first release, so the alternative workflow for these examples is ripple markers on/off.

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Wow, so many ideas.
I am happy with whatever is developed but agree with those who suggest that there is a case for being able to choose whether markers should ripple edit or not.
Again, if markers were track based, you could just lock or unlock the tracks to control what ripples and what doesn’t.
Also agree that a simpler solution which is deliverable is preferred to a more complex one which would take much more development.

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