I'm helpless at random clicking

thanks! i will indeed check out the videos. but the time to render is a deal breaker for me given that other programs such as quicktime do this 1.6gb two-clip combination in just over two minutes. and granted, shotcut is infinitely faster than letting youtube do it although youtube will get a reduced resolution version up about as fast if you are feeding it high quality clips.

and i too am a beginner at video although i’ve been absorbing a lot over the last few months i’ve been trying to learn thus i think that i might have freaked out over a change i saw when i used quicktime and the qt file showed different metadata from my original file. specifically, one field was ‘color profile’ and on the original it was 1-2-1 and on the qt version it was 1-1-1 and i’m pretty certain i mistook that for the color depth format which looks like this … 4:2:2.

thus, given that qt is native on my mac and it’s easier for me to understand and it renders as fast as anything you can buy, i think i’m going to stick with it.

/guy

I don’t accept that. I think you’re seeing direct stream copies. Not encoded edits.

I’ve seen quick encoded edits before but not that fast and I’m using multiple SSD’s (PCIE read 2x SATA raid 0 Write) and a pair of hex core xeons, quicktime had to be doing a direct copy to hit that kind of speed.

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i don’t accept your non-acceptance! :slight_smile:

but seriously, that’s why i was asking you guys about the shotcut presets and whether it was trying to recode the two files or not. i’ve not gotten any answer except that ‘… presets are complicated’. i tried mpeg4 and h264 and a couple of others and they all took between 20-30 minutes.

but i’m going to re-create my quicktime procedure so i can tell you exactly the steps i’m taking:

camera: sony cybershot dsc-rx0
file #1: 1080p60, h.264, aac, , mpeg-4, 3:22, 636mb
file #2: 1080p60, h.264, aac, mpeg-4, 5:18, 1gb

according to vlc and qt (i double checked because it seems way low) the bitrate was 25-30mb/s and the camera is capable of 150mb/s i think. maybe more.

and no, i’m wrong. i can’t believe a camera designed for pro video is so low but here it is:

1920x1080 60p 28M/1920x1080 50p 28M:
Records the movies in 1920×1080 (60p/50p).
Bit-rate: Approx. 28 Mbps (Avg.)

so, between 25-30mb/s is exactly right. ok, here we go …

open quicktime with first file. drag second file to the bottom of the screen and a timeline pops up to accept it and it automatically adds the 2nd file at the end of the first file. nothing easier except i had to google to find out there was a timeline there because is nothing so logical as a menu item such as /view/show timeline.

remember me bitching about just this sort of lazy programming? this qt method is exactly my worst case example of randomly clicking grains of sand on the beach. :slight_smile:

anyway, now to save a new file with the combined files joined together. i don’t need any edits.

insert about an hour of bitching at apple for removing all the /save as/ commands. i spend like half my computer life figuring out ways around this utterly stupid choice which cripples any sort of file management.

so i don’t have a /save/ or /save as/ option. there is a share option which i’m assuming is what you assumed i used–to create a streaming file. but i’m using the /export as/ command. let’s see what prompts we get:

so there’s only one option, for hvec. i’m leaving that option unchecked. i’m saving it as 1080p resolution and qt is going to change my mp4 extension to .mov which only means it’s going to remove the wrapper–that alone isn’t going to require much processing time.

ok, i didn’t time it exactly, but it was less than 4 minutes. likely 3 minutes + change. so let’s see what we have:

as i said, it’s now a .mov file 1920x1080, aac, h.264, 8:40 and 1.0gb in size. about the only surprising thing is that the bitrate dropped from about 28mb/s down to about 16mb/s and vlc confirms this.

so do you think that’s the difference in taking 3 minutes and taking 30 minutes? that the input bit rate seems to have dropped about 12mb/s down to 16mb/s? do you think that if i found the proper preset in shotcut that the exported file would have the same bitrate as the original?

[later note: just to gather all the data i could, i went back to quicktime and did the /export as/ command again and this time checked that /hvec/ box. and wow! the estimate went up to two hours and might have gone higher if i hadn’t aborted it. hvec is brand new and only partially supported on this mac so far, so i don’t know much about it. but for a two hour export i do know i don’t need it for this test file!]

/guy

Yes, you ARE seeing direct stream copies with your QT.
This is not how Shotcut (or any NLE that I’m aware of) works.

I have found over the years that when you run a program, you have to leave behind the programs you know. Forget about what they did and how they did it. ALL programs do the same things in the area they are intended. ALL programs edit, cut, copy, paste, adjust color, set sound levels etc. Some are younger software and will lack some features. EVERYTHING you need to know is on the screen in front of you. You may have to click a few menu items to find the function you are looking for. Shotcut is a very promising piece of software. If you want to get the job done, you have to divorce yourself from the ideas of how other programs work. They are ALL just interfaces for the codec engines. If you put two clips on a time line back to back and render. They are joined. It is that simple. If you want a full featured totally free, mature video editor, try Blender. You will find that it goes about the same tasks in different ways than Shotcut, but it is robust and mature with everything working well. Unlimited tracks and with the 3D modeling sections (the main program) you can create anything you want for content and any transition you want or can imagine. You will run into the same learning curve as any program. Keep in mind they ALL do the same things. You have to learn the workflow of ANY program to use it effectively. If your clips are of different framerates then you have to convert one or adjust the playback speed. Blender does this without breaking a sweat. I’m not ditzing Shotcut, just pointing out that other free programs are out there until this one matures.

yeah, it’s good advice, but unless shotcut could handle the lut system i use (vlog for the gh5 and slog for the sony and color finale pro), i still have to use fcpx. which begs the question–why don’t i just use fcpx for everything since it’s a pro or at least a semi-pro solution?

and that’s the problem–it makes no provision for beginners and everytime i open the thing up and start clicking and dragging around those grains of sand i end up screwing up the ui so badly i have to do a factory reset and start over. i can do the lut stuff because all you have to do is drag your clip to the timeline and then select it and then apply your lut by clicking the one your want. and it sure doesn’t help that the interface is light grey fonts on a light grey background and i only have one semi-working eye left. i literally have to use a magnifying glass to see the tiny little letters.

oh, i also have compressor and i can use it just fine to create files to stream for vimeo and youtube &c, but compressor won’t join two files as far as i can tell. i also have edit ready which actually will use my lut system, but so far i can’t get it to successfully merge files although that’s one of the features. i’ve only tried with 4k60p files though, not with full hd.

/guy

after having slept on it, i’m convinced @Steve_Ledger is right. the final file size should have been the sum of he two clips and it was 600mb less. also, the bitrate should have been the same and it was down by 10mb/s.

so today when i get some time i’m going to try the same experiment with final cut pro x. i’m able to create a project and drag clips from the project to the timeline and i’ll look up how to save the timeline and determine whether i can save it the same as the original clips, i…e., to bypass compressor which always processes the files for streaming depending on the intended destination. for some reason i’ve only thought of fcpx as my 4k editor and every time i have a 1080 file i use easier editors so i haven’t tried some of this stuff in fcpx.

/guy

Why are you messing around with Shotcut when you have Final Cut Pro?

Go ahead and mess up the Shotcut UI all you want… then go to View/Restore Default Layout.
shotcut default layout

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Hi glad you got QT to work. I know Zero about QT, so can’t help you there. But in my reading I think I saw that Share is used for save Also when you open the Share there is a more options button at the bottom that you want to push. Does QT have a expert mode, if so you may have to use it to get the outputs you want. You may want to find a good QT Forum to ask questions on about it.

I would agree with everyone else that the files are being joined, with out being encoded again, that’s what the speed is telling me. But you are seeing a reduction in bits per second, which means something is going on , it could be QT is using your GPU. I think QT may use your compressor program for export, not sure on that.

Camera, I think I saw something about your camera getting a new firmware that will output 400Mbs? Not sure on that.
You were expecting 150Mbs output from camera? It may have different output speeds for different formats, you may be able to still get a higher bit rate out of the camera if the video is still inside the camera? Some cameras use Raw for still shots, and then convert to jpg for jpg output. My only experience with a camera is the camera that came with my phone.

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yeah, i have two cameras. the panasonic gh5 is a video beast and will do 4k 400mb/s and more astonishing, will do it to the internal sd card. it drops down to 150mb/s/ when you shoot in the 1080p modes and in some of the 4k modes (there are literally a hundred video modes and combinations on this monster!) although i don’t use it in those modes. and yes, you’re exactly right. panasonic promised us early adopters they would provide 400mb/s internal recording capability up to 10-bit color and they did. you could already get all that and more if you used the atomos inferno recorder though. until i get my imac fully compliant with h265 my default video mode on the gh5 is for 4k60p at 8-bits and at 150mb/s. that’s so if i hit the red button up top while taking stills i’ll get a result easily edited and with pretty dammed good quality. on the gh5 you have 5 or 6 custom slots and i have 3 of those slots set up to use vlog and hdr and 400mb/s 10-bit although i had to make sure i bought some of the nosebleed expensive v90 cards to be able to shoot up there. and i can edit that in fcpx, but my poor imac struggles a little bit even though it was top-of-the line in 2014 when i bought it. also, i’m one of the unlucky ones who didn’t get the new apple file system because of the hybrid drive although apple has promised us it’s coming ‘real soon now’ as the late great jerry pournelle was fond of saying. :slight_smile: anyway, i think that hvec/h265 is designed to fly using the new filesystem and that’s gotta be what is keeping me slowed down when i try to use it.

the other camera is a sony rx0 and is so tiny it’s unbelievable and thus can’t dissipate enough heat to shoot at 4k internally, but you can run an atomos monitor/recorder out the mini hdmi port and it will create 4k. but that’s for production studios who don’t mind hooking up cages and monitors and hanging all sorts of crap off a camera which is think is pretty funny for a camera which measures about 1.5x1.5". and i already have the gh5 for 4k video anyway, so i’m running the rx0 at 1080p and i (ass)umed the bitrate would be 150mb/s but evidently that high a bitrate generates too much heat as well and the maximum bitrate is 50mb/s and that only if you shoot in xavc, the sony blu-ray format. in avchd and mp4 the bitrate is 28mb/s.

believe me, learning video is a struggle and a challenge for this oldschool stills photographer who is still uncomfortable with gui os’s. :slight_smile:

/guy

ok, i missed the light for my evening walk so i’m going to try fcpx on my two clips and see what i can do or find out.

i also re-instated my vimeo plus account today as youtube is free, but it mangles your files too much. i uploaded the only two videos i’ve shot lately to test everything out. one is 4k60p from the gh5 and the other is the combo file i’ve been posting about here in 1080p60 from the rx0. it’s the one i combined and exported in quicktime.

and yes, i know they’re boring. but one of the biggest hurdles for an oldschool stills photographer such as me is remembering that the dammed camera even has a video function. i was out shooting stills during magic hour the other evening as i walked up to the railroad crossing i hear the whistle and just managed to hit the video button as the front engine was coming into the crossing. if i ever learn to edit i think i can make something very worthwhile out of this–it just needs a touch of extra stabilization in software and some exposure and color temperature tweaks. i thought about slowing it down, but then it would be 4 or 8 minutes of watching a train pass by rather than just 2 minutes. :slight_smile:

/guy

ok. just finished the fcpx test and it told me i need to be using fcpx no matter how many weeks it takes me to learn enough to use it. first, quicktime and fcpx are optimized for my mac and apple has always used little tricks they don’t release to developers just so they can keep their edge–they’ve been caught at it before.

anyway, to recap. i have two separate clips or files with the following attributes:

#1: 1080p, 60fps, h.264, 3:32, 636mb, 28mb/s
#2: 1080p, 60fps, h.264, 5:18, 1.0gb, 28mb/s

i imported these into a project and dragged them both to the timeline. i was going to apply apple stabilization algorithm, but it was taking too long. i then checked to make sure the timeline was showing the right length and it was, so i started looking for the /export/ and finally found it under the /share/ menu.

i started that and set it up per the following panel in this screenshot:

i noted the time and then monitored the background processes window and although there were two stages to the process, it took between 4-5 minutes in total.

the resulting file has the following attributes:

1080p, 60fps, h.264 (timecode?), 8:31, 2.0gb, 31mb/s

you might note the differences. the file size is greater than the sum of the two source files, although not by much. and the bitrate has increased from 28mb/s to 31mb/s and that one i can’t explain.

but the bottom line is that i think i need to throw all my mental resources into learning fcpx and hopefully when i get the new apple filesystem even my 4 year old imac can edit 4k video smoothly.

/guy

Even simpler, just click the [+] to add to the playlist. Then choose “add all to timeline” and they will all be inserted in the timeline with no gaps between them.

choose “add all to timeline” and they will all be inserted in the timeline with no gaps between them.
As for file size, yes shotcut tends to generate large files.
As for rendering speed, yes shotcut tends to take considerable time.
If you want a quick way to simply join two or more clips, use Avidemux. It won’t do half the things that shotcut does, but for what you are describing (?) it is quite enough and very effective. Quicker saves, smaller files. And it’s easy to control file size even further by using “Configure.”

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a previous poster suggested this and i installed it, but it’s going to be deprecated very shortly when apple cuts off all the 32-bit apps. and there was another issue which i can’t remember without going back through my previous posts.

thanks!

/guy

Swings or round-abouts, both methods are simple and you stick to what you’re comfortable with.

How do you figure this?
I find the opposite to be true (based on the settings I choose) - otherwise I would have moved onto something better (I’m not a patient man)

I got a bit lost in what is the original objective. If the objective is just to merge 2 video files with no editing, it can be done in DOS:
copy/b file001.mov+file002.mov combined_file.mov

I assumed your camera is producing MOV container files; you can substitute whatever file extension your camera files are.

I hope you are able to well acquainted with ShotCut. I learned a lot about how to use the features of ShotCut by searching for what I wanted to do. My search results usually find tutorials from the same few users, who I feel have done a fantastic job at explaining how to do some basic, as well as interesting, techniques.

Not recommended, you cannot simply copy the bytes from two binary files and expect them to work because binary files usually have headers, metadata, data structures, etc. that define the format of the file. If you do a binary copy, you will simply be copying all the bytes as is which ends up putting these structures in places that they should not be, so when you open them, the parsing function will have trouble and see what is essentially corrupt data.