Further Marker Additions And Improvements

@shotcut , I know you said you didn’t agree with changing the shortcut key for deleting a marker in the 21.12 beta thread but allow me to make the case for it one more time. :slightly_smiling_face:

Right now, it’s Ctrl+Shift+M. When the user clicks on a marker to delete it with the mouse, the only comfortable way of doing it is to take the right hand off the mouse to hit the M while the left hand grabs Ctrl+Shift. But that’s a lot of movement to do such a simple task. Imagine if the user wants to delete more than one marker. Having to do this amount of movement to hit 3 keys including most likely taking one hand away from the mouse for that action over and over again would just make the whole thing unappealing and the grand majority of people would just stick with right clicking the marker to choose Delete.

But if you change it to Z which right now is just a repeating the same function as the Delete key, it makes the option of deleting a marker with a shortcut key favorable because the user can keep one hand on the mouse and only has to hit the one key Z to delete a marker with the other hand. It’s much quicker and there is far less movement of the hands. If the user wants to delete more than one marker then there is nothing to it. And it could be even faster than right clicking and choosing Delete.

And making it Z would be easy to find because it’s on the exact opposite end as M and on the same line. So that means if the user is also seeking to markers with Shift and there is a marker to delete then Z is right next to Shift to press. It’s pretty convenient.

Maybe the marker panel is an easier way to delete many markers?

Maybe. But if we are going to say that then why have the shortcut key at all, ya know? If the shortcut key is there as another option then might as well make it as effortless as possible.

I agree with your rationale for Z as the delete marker shortcut, but here is the counter argument. The set of editing keys in the bottom left corner of the keyboard were established by Avid around 30 years ago, and some other tools like Lightworks (around the same age) adopted them as well. When I added timeline editing to Shotcut around 7 years ago, I adopted them but also Delete and Backspace for their common usage and familiarity. So, I am hesitant to break a convention that existed for so long even though I believe most people are using Backspace, Delete, and Cut. Also, the tooltip for Lift has its Z shortcut embedded in its string, and this would break that translation for all languages very close to release in a few days. There are a few translators that frequently update and strive for 100%. So, I try to only update the English language once per release at the beginning of the beta period. We are essentially in what other projects refer to as a “string freeze.” I also do not want to establish the precedent of changing keyboard shortcuts frequently because you or someone else asked for it as their preference and feel people just need to wait for configurable keyboard shortcuts.

Warning: I confess that I didn’t read all the 77 entries in this topic before posting this. So forgive me in advance if this was already suggested. Christmas is just around the corner… be kind :slight_smile:

I’ve been using the markers a lot and I love them.
The only problem I have is this: I occasionally confuse the Marker (M) button with the Split button.
Does it happen to anyone else?

Maybe the 3 marker buttons could be moved next to the Ripple Markers button?
I also suggest to move the Marker (M) button between the two arrow buttons. For a first time user, it would look more obvious that those arrows are related to the markers.


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It wasn’t, so you’re good. :slightly_smiling_face: Besides even if it was, anyone who made this video:

should get free passes for the rest of December. :laughing:

I like your suggestion except that the Marker icon being put before the seeking icons was done by @brian to reflect the placement on the keyboard of the shortcut keys:

Also, by putting the Marker icon in front of the < and > in your layout it actually puts it right beside the icon for rippling marker which would be nice as it sort of groups it together.

We’ll see what @shotcut and @brian think though.

Not on my French Canadian keyboard :confused:

Also not on: Chilean (Spanish) keyboards, French (France) azerty keyboards, Asian keyboards etc…
But it’s OK. The argument makes sense for English keyboards :slight_smile:

I agree

I tried to resist, but I couldn’t :slight_smile:

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Very interesting. So where are the up, down, left and right arrow keys? Are they also in between the Ctrl and 0 keys on your keyboard?

What you show there is the bilingual Canadian keyboard. I hate those.
But to answer your question, yes, I do have those arrows on my unilingual French Canadian keyboard.

I only quickly grabbed that image just to ask about the up, down, left and right arrow keys cause where they are there in that image is the same as mine. :slightly_smiling_face:

Since the < > placement are different for you, how does it feel to grab the keys from there to do marker seeking on your keyboard?

Well, it’s not too bad I guess. But like I said elsewhere, I’m not a big keyboard shortcuts user. I know only 5 to 10 shortcuts on each of the programs I use on a regular basis. I prefer buttons and menues. It’s slower, but I’m in no hurry :slight_smile:

That doesn’t sound very reassuring. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

So I looked up a Latin American keyboard and this is what it looks like:

The < and > are next to Z instead of M and they are on one key instead of two.

So the convenience of the < and > keys for seeking markers being next to M is not universally shared on all keyboards.

I think it makes it worth reconsidering. Thanks for bringing it up @MusicalBox. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Also, if you think about it, shortcuts users with English keyboards will no doubt appreciate the convenience of having those 3 keys located next to each other on the keyboard, but they wont really care where the matching buttons are located on the tool bar… because they don’t use the tool bar buttons.

It does not happen to me. Do you think this is because the buttons are too close together, or because they look similar?

I do not have a strong preference about this except… is it just one person’s preference and another person prefers the current location.

I really like the symmetry of your mockup. It is pleasing to the eye.

I prefer that any previous/next buttons should always be next to each other. What if we add a 3rd or 4th button some day? They would move farther and farther apart.

@brian , what do you think about the < and > shortcut key issue?

I do not have any ideas about that. I wonder of other keyboard shortcuts have similar problems on different keyboards.

It’s worth reconsidering because what @MusicalBox helped bring to light is important. Both Premiere and Rǝsolve have M as the shortcut key for Markers but neither of them have < and > as the shortcut keys for marker seeking. Now we know why. It might be convenient for users with English language keyboards but for international keyboards it’s anything but convenient. Just looking at the Latin American keyboard shows how uncomfortable it would be to seek markers with < and > which are not only on the opposite end but on one key instead of two.

Just the opposite in my opinion. Single key is just as convenient. It is impossible to choose the single keyboard system that works well with every keyboard. It is absurd to claim “we know why.”

I thought about that. And to be honest, it’s probably just because I was so used to find the Split button right next to the blue magnet that I didn’t even have to think about it or look at the toolbar when I needed to cut a clip. The mouse cursor practically moved by itself to that button next to the blue magnet. It’s as silly as that.

I agree, maybe it is just me. If so, then you have no good reason to move the buttons. That’s why I asked if anyone else have the same problem. Of course, I don’t really expect feedbacks on that question. Very few people will take the time to read this topic and it’s 91 posts. And of those who will actually read it, very few will bother to reply. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained, I asked anyway :slight_smile:

I agree that having the 2 shortcuts on the same key is not inconvenient. I forced myself to use them on a project I’m working on and it wasn’t that bad. Much easier to remember than something like Ctrl+Shift+Page Down for example.

Personnellement, je préfère aussi la disposition proposée par @MusicalBox au post 78 à celle actuelle. Les outils marqueurs sont regroupés ensembles et les flèches de déplacement situées de chaque coté du bouton marqueur sont plus conformes à ce que l’on a l’habitude de voir sur tous les appareils audio et vidéo.

Personally, I also prefer the layout proposed by @MusicalBox in post 78 to the current one. The marker tools are grouped together and the arrow keys on either side of the marker button are more in line with what we’re used to seeing on all audio and video devices.

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